Date: 27 Dec 89 19:45:16 PST From: Orion@cup.portal.com Subject: Re: SRC Modula-3 is available Hi, Please add me to your M-3 list. Since I don't have FTP available, is there anyway that I can give you a DC-60 cartridge or a tape.. and you can tar that M3 stuff to them? Thanks much, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 89 08:03:37 PST From: alberth@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Richard Alberth) Subject: Modula-3 Hello. After reading your addition to comp.archive I am very interested in installing a copy of Modula-3 on our system. We are running a VAX cluster including two 8700s a microvax and a 8800 under VMS V5.1. According to your message this should be quite portable, and I would be interested in anyone else who has plans to install this under VMS so we could work together on this. Thank you very much. Rich -= Internet Unix =- -= Internet VMS =- -= BITNET =- alberth@cs.buffalo.edu | ACSCRJA@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu | ACSCRJA@ubvms alberth@acsu.buffalo.edu | ACSCRJA@ubvm.cc.buffalo.edu | alberth@sunybcs ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 89 09:40:00 PST From: Subject: Welcome Welcome to the Modula-3 mailing list. This list is intended for discussions of the Modula-3 language and the SRC Modula-3 system. I'd like to hear about any of the following: Who are you? What do you plan to do with Modula-3? Are you using SRC Modula-3? Are you porting it to new systems? What is hard to understand in the documentation? Was installation difficult? What are the bugs in the compiler? What are the fixes? A printed version of SRC Report #52, "Modula-3 Report (revised)" is available. This report defines the Modula-3 language. A PostScript version of this report is available on gatekeeper.dec.com in /pub/DEC/Modula-3/Report.ps. A printed version of SRC Report #53, "IO Streams: Abstract Types, Real Programs", by Mark R. Brown and Greg Nelson is also available. This report describes an implementation of I/O streams, how to use Modula-3's partially opaque types, and how Modula-3 programmers can isolate unsafe code. If you would like a copies of either report, send your name, address and the report number to "src-report@src.dec.com". - Bill Kalsow P.S. While the rate of new subscriptions is high, I'll repost this message occasionally. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu 28 Dec 89 10:30:23-PST From: Jeff Deifik Subject: Re: Welcome Who are you? Jeff Deifik, MTS at USC/ISI What do you plan to do with Modula-3? Learn modula, attempt to convience others to use it rather than C,C++,Mainsail, etc. Are you using SRC Modula-3? Not yet. Are you porting it to new systems? Not yet. What is hard to understand in the documentation? No. >A printed version of SRC Report #53, "IO Streams: Abstract Types, Real >Programs", by Mark R. Brown and Greg Nelson is also available. This >report describes an implementation of I/O streams, how to use Modula-3's >partially opaque types, and how Modula-3 programmers can isolate unsafe >code. Is this available online? I would rather print it here. If it isn't, then I will request a hardcopy one. Do you know what Dec intends to do with Modula-3? Is Dec going to write new (for sale) programs in it? Are the Dec guys who are porting it to vms doing it for fun, or did Dec ask them to do it? We are re-writing an application for one of those nameless government organizations. It was origionally writtin in ICL (Ron Ayres CIT), which is a polymorphic strongly typed, garbage collection, string primitive, fully checking, etc. high level language. The nameless ones want us to do this in C. I think this is a big lose. I suggested Mainsail, and they said *no way* (due partially to xidak's licencing procedure). Now we are trying to convience them to allow us to use Ada (since it hs strong typing and some checking, and limited GC, and so is better than C for this task). If I try to convience them to use Modula-3, they might say that its a research language. Do you have any ammunition that I might use to help? Jeff Deifik jdeifik@isi.edu University of Southern California / Information Sciences Institute 4676 Admiralty Way, Marina Del Rey CA 90292-6695 ------- ------- End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 89 11:26:00 PST From: Subject: Re: Welcome ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: Received: by jumbo; id AA06510; Thu, 28 Dec 89 10:37:35 PST Received: by decwrl.dec.com; id AA23329; Thu, 28 Dec 89 10:37:33 -0800 Received: by helios.ee.lbl.gov (5.59/1.39) id AA05361; Thu, 28 Dec 89 10:37:30 PST Message-Id: <8912281837.AA05361@helios.ee.lbl.gov> To: kalsow (Bill Kalsow) Subject: Re: Welcome In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 28 Dec 89 09:40:00 PST. Date: Thu, 28 Dec 89 10:37:28 PST From: Jef Poskanzer Hi. To answer your questions: I'm currently an independent graphics and systems hacker. My interest in Modula-3 comes from having worked at Xerox years ago, and having fallen in love with Mesa. What I plan to do with Modula-3 is bring it up on Suns, eventually; considering that I'm not ready to start now, and others are almost certainly already doing this, I'll probably get a free ride. As for the documentation, what is hard to understand about it is how to get it printed. I sent both files to a laserwriter and got a total of three pages from the end of one document. Unfortunately, due to a bug in new spooler software installed two weeks ago, the errors from the laserwriter are not getting logged! Have others reported problems with the documents? --- Jef ------- End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 89 11:54:00 PST From: Subject: DEC and Modula-3 Jeff Deifik asks: > Do you know what Dec intends to do with Modula-3? I don't know what DEC intends to do with Modula-3. At the moment it's a research project being pursued by a few people at SRC. We, at SRC, are trying to promote Modula-3 inside and outside of DEC. > Is Dec going to write new (for sale) programs in it? I don't know. We could charge you for SRC Modula-3 :-) :-) > Are the Dec guys who are porting it to vms doing it for fun, > or did Dec ask them to do it? I don't know. I'd guess they're doing it for fun. - Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 89 12:01:00 PST From: Subject: PostScript woes Jef Poskanzer had problems with the documentation: > As for the documentation, what is hard to understand about it is how > to get it printed. I sent both files to a laserwriter and got a total > of three pages from the end of one document. Unfortunately, due to > a bug in new spooler software installed two weeks ago, the errors from > the laserwriter are not getting logged! Have others reported problems > with the documents? Nobody else has reported problems with the PostScript files. If our PostScript and your printer don't like each other, you can regenerate the user manual from its TeX sources in the doc directory and you can get hard-copy of the language report by mailing to src-report@src.dec.com. - Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 89 14:31:41 PST From: mfeldman@seas.gwu.edu (Mike Feldman) Subject: Re: printing the documents We have, I think, a standard Sun lpr program which detects the PostScript header on the file and ships the PS right straight out to the Apple printer. I had no problem printing both the M3 revised report and the DEC installation/user guide. For a change, something went _very_ smoothly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 28 Dec 89 16:24:00 PST Subject: Introduction Hi, I'm Jim Johnson. With the aid of others in my group we're porting the M3-to-C compiler to VMS. Chris Whitaker and Mark Howell have done a lot of the work so far. We've managed to get the intermediate C code to VMS from an Ultrix machine and are evaluating how much of the code and the various runtime packages will port. So far the biggest immmediate problem is names that exceed 31 characters. In real life I work in VMS development on the DECdtm facility, a set of services that provide resource manager independent commit coordination for distributed transactions. Jim. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 89 11:02:00 PST From: Subject: Re: Welcome My original welcome message had an incorrect "reply-to" field. It should have sent replies to m3@src.dec.com instead of to myself. I'll manually forward any welcome replies that I receive. Sorry for the confusion. - Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 89 11:02:00 PST From: Subject: Fwd: Re: Welcome ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: Received: by jumbo; id AA14170; Fri, 29 Dec 89 09:30:33 PST Received: by decwrl.dec.com; id AA00911; Fri, 29 Dec 89 09:30:21 -0800 Received: from jones.cis.ohio-state.edu by cheops.cis.ohio-state.edu (5.61/4.89 1221) id AA22680; Fri, 29 Dec 89 08:40:09 -0500 Received: by jones.cis.ohio-state.edu (5.61/4.890524) id AA01799; Fri, 29 Dec 89 08:40:06 -0500 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 89 08:40:06 -0500 From: George M. Jones Message-Id: <8912291340.AA01799@jones.cis.ohio-state.edu> To: kalsow (Bill Kalsow) In-Reply-To: kalsow@src.dec.com's message of 28 Dec 1989 0940-PST (Thursday) Subject: Welcome Reply-To: george@cis.ohio-state.edu From: kalsow@src.dec.com (Bill Kalsow) Date: 28 Dec 1989 0940-PST (Thursday) Who are you? I am a systems programmer/administrator working for Ohio State University Computer and Information Science. My primary responsibilities lie with the department's shared memory multiprocessors (butterfly, Multimax). I formerly worked in CompuServe's Languages & Tools group and did a small ammount of mainaince on their home grown compilers. I have had an interst in the Modula class of languages for several years. What do you plan to do with Modula-3? For the moment, look it over, try to grock it in fullness. We also have a strong research interest in threads so we will at the very least take a real good look at the threads module. Are you using SRC Modula-3? See above. I'll let you know if I get further than looking. Are you porting it to new systems? Possibly. Likley targets include Encore Multimax, BBN Butterfly. What is hard to understand in the documentation? What I've seen looks good. Was installation difficult? Havn't gotten that far. We don't have a DS3100 or a VAX. We do have a few SPARCs so I may start there. A Sun 3 version would realy help me in bootstrapping other systems. What are the bugs in the compiler? What are the fixes? N.A. Yet. Thanks for making M3 available. ---George Jones OSU Computer & Inf. Science 2036 Neil Ave.,Columbus,Ohio 43210. 614-292-7325 george@cis.ohio-state.edu or ...!osu-cis!george The closer you are to the news, the further it is from the truth. ------- End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 89 13:42:39 PST From: lisch@pdx.MENTOR.COM (Ray Lischner) Subject: re: Welcome Who are you? Ray Lischner, a clone at Mentor Graphics, in Beaverton, OR, USA. What do you plan to do with Modula-3? First, I'd like to get it. Then try to see how well it really works. If I like it, I will try to push it as a replacement for C++, which is currently used for all new software. Are you using SRC Modula-3? I don't have it yet. We do not have FTP access. Is it available via UUCP? Please? Are you porting it to new systems? If I get it, I will port it to various Apollo workstations. What is hard to understand in the documentation? The report is pretty clear, but the real problems are visible until one tries to write software and it does not work as expected. So if I manage to get Modula-3 running, then I can say... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 89 15:19:57 PST From: Subject: Re: Welcome Ray, >> Are you using SRC Modula-3? >> I don't have it yet. We do not have FTP access. Is it available >> via UUCP? Please? You can grab this via UUCP from decwrl!~/pub/DEC/Modula-3. If you don't know what filename you want, grab decwrl!~/ls-lR.Z. You will have to do this from machine "mntgfx", which is a neighbor of decwrl. Paul Vixie DEC WRL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 89 08:40:35 PST From: BOTCHAIR%UOGUELPH.bitnet@ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca (Alex Bewley) Subject: Welcome Info Who are you? Alex Bewley. Just finished high school and have seven months to kill before university (hence, a lot of tinkering time). I run a small custom computer software company on the side and use Modula-2 extensively. What do you plan to do with Modula-3? The appeal of a new language is what got me at first, but after reading the Modula-3 Report, the language seems to be right up my alley for what I am doing: operating and embedded systems. Are you using SRC Modula-3? Nope, want to though. Can someone tell me how to get the compiler from BITNET? Also, since I don't have access to a VAX I might have a few problems un-'tar'ing them, could I get the code for that program too. Are you porting it to new systems? Ultimately, since I only have an AT, that would be the system I would want to port the system to. | What is hard to understand in the documentation? | Was installation difficult? | What are the bugs in the compiler? | What are the fixes? | | When I get the compiler and associated code I will reply to these ------------------------------------------------------------------ Alex Bewley Just this guy... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 89 10:50:26 PST From: frode@m2cs.uu.no (Frode Odegard) Subject: re: Welcome Who are you? Frode Odegard, a hacker at M2CS (Modula-2 CASE Systems) in Oslo, Norway. What do you plan to do with Modula-3? The language is of interest to us because we are building an exploratory environment (much inspired by systems as Genera and Interlisp-D) for Modula-2. We would like to see what it is like to use a higher-level language and how it affects our thinking as "exploratory programmers" while still working within a Modula framework. Are you using SRC Modula-3? I'm told we have the alpha version somewhere on the net as of today; the answer is "not yet". Are you porting it to new systems? Someone might have fun _implementing_ Modula-3 under PEM (Our System). I don't think anyone where would do it within tbe next 24 months, though. What is hard to understand in the documentation? We'll see. Was installation difficult? What are the bugs in the compiler? What are the fixes? We'll see!!! - Frode ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: 30 Dec 89 11:20:10 PST From: dwa%desargues@ucsd.edu (Don Anderson) Subject: who/what/why Who are you? Don Anderson. Professor of Mathematics and Dean of Sciences at UCSD. I've followed the Pascal saga ever since Wirth was here visiting Ken Bowles while I got the administration to support the UCSD Pascal project (we didn't have Deans then - I was a mere Chairman. Now all this stuff falls under the Dean of Engineering, so I can only claim to be to be an enthusiast. What do you plan to do with Modula-3? I teach a computer graphics course which uses Modula-2. There is heavy use of opaque types (from Vectors through SplineCurves and BezierPatches) so that the student (who often only knows Fortran) won't have to worry about the subtlties of pointers and can concentrate on the mathematics. I will be looking at Modula-3 as a possible replacement for Modula-2 (and as the alternative to C++, which the CS department is pushing). Are you using SRC Modula-3? I managed to get it to compile and install on a SparcStation. "Using" is a strong word. "Investigating" is more like it. Are you porting it to new systems? I leave porting to the professionals whenever I can. I did have to tweak the Sparc alpha release (see below). What is hard to understand in the documentation? The documentation looks good. So far. Was installation difficult? Minor problems. The alloca.h problem, the fact that Sun's make and sed don't work together quite the way which was expected and a redirection was needed in a couple of spots. The Report.ps printed fine on a recent vintage LaserWriter but overflowed the ancient one which I keep in my office (retired after years of student use). And, of course, I almost ran out of disk, but then I am always running out of disk.. What are the bugs in the compiler? Too early to tell. What are the fixes? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------